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Hop Looks at D&D Miniatures

Editor's note:  The following post is a guest post by Karl "Hop" Hoipkemeier, my uncle - the one that got me hooked on gaming as a kid.  In the coming months, guests posts will be increasing in frequency as I add the ability for multiple bloggers to the site.  Hopefully this should mean a more steady stream of content!

I have probably played Star Wars Miniatures for about a year. The starter set didn’t do much for me, but after a few boosters, I was hooked. The thing is that I like building the squads almost as much as I like playing the game. It’s a lot of fun to create the theme-based squad or the historical squad and see how they fare in combat against other squads. That brings me to D&D Miniatures.

Considering that I like Star Wars minis, I recently decided to try D&D minis. D&D minis is a much more frustrating experience, and it didn’t take me long to figure out why. Building squads (known as “warbands”) was the problem.

In Star Wars minis (expansions aside), you have three basic factions, Separationists, Rebublic, and Fringe. While you can’t combine Separationist and Republic figs in one squad, you can use Fringe figs in a squad of either faction. That means when building a squad, you have access to about two thirds of the total mix of figures.

Now, compare that to D&D minis. Instead of having two opposing factions, you have four, accounting for the combinations of good-evil and law-chaos (LG, LE, CG, CE). You will rarely have a unit that has more than one faction (roughly 10%). So, when building a warband, you have access to a third or less of your total figs. Given that I have about 75 figs, that means I have roughly 25 to choose from when making a warband of a given faction.

Another problem with building warbands is that each warband needs a commander. In Star Wars minis, there is no penalty if you don’t have a commander. D&D minis rules penalize units in a warband that are not under command control, so you need a commander to field an effective warband. After purchasing a starter and eight boosters for D&D minis, I still don’t have a commander for one of my factions. About a quarter of my figs are completely unusable until I can get a commander for the faction.

This brings me to one final point that applies to both Star Wars and D&D minis. In the case of D&D minis, I need a commander for one of my factions. You’d think it would be an easy thing to find a list somewhere so that I’d know which figs to look for. Wrong. WotC wants so very hard to protect their copyright on these games, including the stats of the various minis that they are prohibiting anyone from posting them on the web. I can’t find out simple information on a relatively trivial matter because of what? Is someone going to download the stats and play the game with pennies? If so, who cares? It’s frustrating for me, a player and legitimate owner of the game, that I can’t find out something simple like this to better enjoy the game. It’s just sad that WotC can’t see this.

Published Feb 15 2006, 09:32 AM by Hop
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Comments

 

Jason said:

I did a quick search on google and found this site, which has stats for all the D&D minis and Star Wars minis.

http://www.vesivus.com/minis/index.htm
February 15, 2006 12:30 PM
 

Hop said:

Thanks, I better check it out now. It's only a matter of time until WotC asks them to take it down.  ;)
February 16, 2006 11:10 AM
 

Jeff said:

Nice find.  Karl, I guess you'll have to break out your pennies to make a commander.
February 16, 2006 11:23 AM
 

Jason said:

I'm confused by your comments about Wizards asking them to take the info down. I only played D&D minis for a while, so I'm not up to date on that scene. But they let lots of places show images of the MtG cards, so I don't understand how they would have a different position on the D&D/SW stat cards.

Can you provide a link to an example of Wizards "prohibiting" the stat info online?
February 20, 2006 11:28 AM
 

Colin said:

Well I'm an avid DDM player and I've never seen any evidence of WotC trying to stop people from putting up the stats for the minis. In fact "Guy" the official rules clarification person on the WotC forums, has said on several occasions that he frequents this site which has full spoiler lists for each of the sets.

http://www.3rdedition.org/merricb/mini.htm

February 20, 2006 1:01 PM
 

Hop said:

I'll check through the official posts on the WotC forums (as soon as their forums are back up) and see if I can find their current policy. If it's changed, I'll update my article to that effect.

While I recently started DDM, I've been playing SWM for a while now. When I first started collecting Star Wars minis, I frequented the WotC forums, looking for information on squad builds. It was frustrating because there were no stats listed for any of the figs. There were posts by WotC on the forums indicating that you could not posts the stats of specific figures without violating copyright. I have not looked at their forums since then, so maybe things have changed. I've tried to check and see if those posts are still in the forums, but it looks like they're doing maintenance on the site.

February 21, 2006 8:51 AM
 

Hop said:

This is directly from the WotC forums (apparently still current policy):

1) It is always best not to post the entire stat card -- doing so is stretching the limits of fair use and could potentially get someone in trouble, and we don't want that. Just list the numeric stats (attack, damage, cost, etc.) and the names of special abilities -- you can then look up those abilities in the glossary, so that gives everyone every bit of information needed. (Note that this is still technically a copyright violation; however, in my opinion, these seem to fall in the "fair use" category of copyright violations so they should be acceptable for the time being.)

2) Exceptions:

   a) Commander effects can be quoted in full because they don't appear in the glossary, so this is the only reasonable way to discuss their meaning.
   b) Stat card text may be quoted verbatim in the event of a clear contradiction between the stat card text and the glossary text.

In both of these cases, a complete quote of the text in question is necessary to enable debate and critique, so quoting them would be a reasonable interpretation of fair use.

3) Unpublished Material: Please do not post stats prior to a set's release date. Doing so effectively violates the owner's first publication rights, and we don't want to do anything that might get anyone in trouble with either WotC or LFL. (There are actually some pretty strict rules for "first release" of information between WotC and LFL, so this is one that can really get sticky.)

4) Photos: It's okay to create and post original photos of miniatures, subject to point #3, above.

4) This policy is subject to change: As of right now, these are the guidelines that we, as moderators, are going to use on this forum, and it's really just based on our opinion of what constitutes fair use. We are not lawyers for either WotC or LFL, so our opinions are just that -- opinions. If we receive instructions to handle these sorts of things differently, we will do so immediately and we'll let you know what the new rules/guidelines will be. Remember, WotC and LFL own the copyright on all this material -- they're the only ones who have the right to publish this stuff under copyright law. (Also, keep in mind that WotC is licensed by LFL, which means that there are two sets of lawyers at work here, and WotC will generally err on the side of caution so that LFL lawyers don't have to get involved.)

Also:

That means no posting of stats*, artwork, or other propriatory material of either Wizards of the Coast or Lucasfilm Ltd.

No posting to websites that have information posted in violation of copyright.
February 21, 2006 9:17 AM
 

Jason said:

Weird. I went and found that post and other related to it on the wizards forums. It seems that this "crackdown" on stats comes from the Lucasfilm side of the license more than the Wizards. Also it seems (to me) that they frown on posting of stats before the sets are offically released more than posting of that info afterwards.

Apparently they have concerns about people playing SW minis without buying the product, which is weird to me. Someone could in theory, play MtG without buying cards by just printing out the images on the gatherer.wizards.com site.
February 22, 2006 7:48 AM
 

Michael said:

www.ddshoebox.com

www.swshoebox.com


You can track your collection, it shows full stats for every piece and you can build squads and warbands there.
March 15, 2006 9:30 AM
 

none ur bussiness said:

guys i got this really cool epic rare it is maybe best miniture but my bro beat it with a guy thats not even a third as good using speaical abiliteis and tactics what does this mean.sorry if i cant spell:)
April 10, 2006 7:11 PM

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